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Mr. WARNER.
The Senator mentioned the case has not been made to connect al-Qaida
to Iraq, but I think the Senator is aware of the fact that the
Secretary of Defense has now revealed what was intelligence prior
thereto, the fact that al-Qaida has now established some training
camps, and so forth, within the sovereign boundaries of Iraq. That, to
me, is a very important bit of intelligence that has come to the
forefront.
Senator Byrd keeps saying, What is new? To me, that is very new. It is now out in the open. While I am not suggesting there has been an absolute, airtight, direct connection between 9/11, 2001, it is clear that Iraq sponsors and shelters terrorists, including al-Qaida. On the point about the generals who appeared before the Armed Services Committee, the Senator referred to portions of their testimony. But I have the very clear recollection -- I sat with Chairman Levin throughout every minute of that hearing. These generals also, when pressed by myself and others, said there are times when the U.S. has to act alone, if necessary, to defend ourselves and protect our national interests. That is the point, time and time again, that I debated with our distinguished colleague, Senator Byrd, in which we have, I suppose, from his perspective, different opinions. The Senator in his remarks just now indirectly suggests that we should wait on the UN Perhaps there will be a new inspection regime. I know Secretary of State Powell has brilliantly and courageously worked up there to develop a strong United Nations resolution. We will have to await judgment until that resolution is forthcoming. But I think we cannot leave in the minds of the American people that, in any way, our Nation must relinquish the authority, under the Constitution, to protect our own national interests -- relinquish it in any way or predicate it on action of the United Nations. We cannot do that. We cannot let the United Nations think in any way they could veto the authority of this President or the ability of this Nation to defend itself. I hope the Senator was not suggesting that in any way by his remarks.
Mr. KENNEDY. General Scowcroft, who is a distinguished
retired general and arms control expert, the head of a Presidential
intelligence board, was the one who indicated that he did not believe
there had been a connection; that you might have had contact, but by
definition, as the Senator has pointed out, the connection with al-
Qaida did not in any way reflect on September 11. And Secretary Powell
indicated that as well. The Director of the FBI said that this summer.
Mr. KENNEDY. If I could just finish now, I was at the last
intelligence briefing. I will not characterize it as to what new
information came out as a result of interviewing detainees in the past
few days or weeks, but, very clearly, the statements that I said in
characterizing the contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq, by Mr.
Scowcroft, by Secretary Powell, by Director Mueller, would indicate
that this had not been a contact that was meaningful and significant in
terms of a threat to the United States.
They also pointed out that, in terms of a country that was providing
aid and assistance to terrorists such as Hamas and Hezbollah, it was
much higher in terms of Iran than it was in terms of Iraq.
Those references -- I included two in my statement. I will include the
third.
The other point I mention is, as the Senator remembers, Secretary of
Defense Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard
Myers, testified before the committee on September 19, 2002 that they
would not talk about planning, would not talk about casualties, would
not talk about operational issues. Even in the closed session,
Secretary Rumsfeld refused to address the issues.
So I think it is important to understand that type of information, as
was raised, has been denied both to the members of the committee and,
most importantly, to the public.
Again, I say no one is asking for the military operations, but what
we are asking for is basic assessments in terms of the numbers of
personnel, their best estimates in terms of the length and what would
be involved, in terms of the conflict.
Secretary Rumsfeld declassified information recently and said that
al-Qaida has camps existing now within the sovereign boundaries of
Iraq, and senior al-Qaida leaders have had sanctuaries in Iraq. While
the link, as I pointed out, between 9/11 has yet to be established,
there is information of the linkage.
I am more concerned with the question I posed to the Senator. In any
way does his remark suggest we should abrogate our right to act when it
is in our security interest because of action or inaction, as the case
may be, of the United Nations on the resolution now being formed while
our Secretary of State and others are working to establish the
framework in such a way that it would meet the concerns that this
Nation has, and I believe Great Britain? It may not. And if it does not
meet them, does that action to put out a new inspection regime which
falls below the standards and requirements and goals that we think are
necessary, does that mean we do nothing? Does that mean our President's
hands and the hands of the Prime Minister of Great Britain are tied?
What are we to do? Allow another ineffective inspection regime to
take place, which would possibly obviate the possibility of engaging
Iraq more forcibly, if it were necessary to stop the spread of weapons
of mass destruction?
Would you clarify the position you have taken?
Mr. KENNEDY. I certainly will. If there is a clear and present danger
to the United States and an immediate threat, obviously the President
has the right to act and should act. But that is not what we have here.
That is not the case that has been made by the Secretary of Defense or
the President or the Senator from Virginia, that there is a clear and
present danger to the security of the American people, and that it is
imminent. That case has not been made. When that case has been made,
put me down in terms of being in favor of taking immediate action.
If the President of the United States makes that determination, fine.
But we have been asking: Where is this evidence? In 1962, President
Kennedy took it to the United Nations and showed the world what was out
there. Every American understood what was at risk. Do you have the
information or don't you have the information? Is the information
different today than it was a year ago when we never had this proposal?
If it is, let's see it. Let's hear about it. We have not seen it in the
Armed Services Committee. I haven't attended all the meetings, but I
have attended just about all of them, the recent ones that we have had
on Iraq. If there is any information there, I would welcome the Senator
from Virginia telling me, pointing that out. But we haven't got it.
The Secretary of Defense says he does not have to make the case
anymore. We ought to know that Saddam is a tyrant. We all agree.
The best question is: How are we going to best defend the security of
the United States? I maintain that the security of the United States
today is threatened as much by al-Qaida as by anything that is
immediate now in terms of Iraq. We do not hear anything more about al-
Qaida. We don't understand what the threat is. That was all we heard
about.
The Senator hasn't said anything about that. Yet we find an unsettled
situation in Afghanistan with the blowing up of cars, the warlords
coming back, and the fact that they are trying to a get a 60,000- or
70,000-man army and they have 1,600 recruits. They want a national
army. They have virtually nothing there.
We have to ask ourselves: If this doesn't go away -- as General
McInerney says -- in 72 hours, what is going to happen in terms of all of
those countries that are helping the United States deal with al-Qaida
that was a threat to the United States, and, according to the head of
the Central Intelligence Agency, continued to be the principal threat
to the security of the United States just 4 months ago? You wouldn't
know that. I do not know what has changed. Neither do the American
people. That is what they want to hear. They hope they will hear that
during this debate. But we haven't.
by Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post
"This nation is prepared to present its case against the
Soviet threat to peace, and our own proposals for a peaceful
world, at any time and in any forum -- in the Organization of
American States, in the United Nations, of in any other
meeting that could be useful -- without limiting our freedom of
action." -- President John F. Kennedy, Cuban missile crisis,
address to the nation, Oct. 22, 1962
"I'm waiting for the final recommendation of the Security
Council before I'm going to say how I'm going to vote." --
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Iraq crisis, address to the Johns
Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, Sept. 27,
2002
How far the Democrats have come. Forty years ago to the
month, President Kennedy asserts his willingness to present
his case to the United Nations, but also his determination
not to allow the United Nations to constrain America's
freedom of action. Today his brother, a leader of the same
party, awaits the guidance of the United Nations before he
will declare himself on how America should respond to another
nation threatening the United States with weapons of mass
destruction.
Ted Kennedy is not alone. Much of the leadership of the
Democratic Party is in the thrall of the United Nations. War
and peace hang in the balance. The world awaits to see what
the American people, in Congress assembled, will say. These
Democrats say: wait, we must find out what the United Nations
says first.
The chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Carl
Levin, would enshrine such lunacy in legislation, no less. He
would not even authorize the use of force without prior UN
approval. Why? What exactly does UN approval mean?
It cannot mean the UN General Assembly, which is an empty
debatable society. It means the Security Council. Now, the
Security Council has five permanent members and 10 rotating
member. Among the rotating members is Syria. How can any
senator stand up and tell the American people that before
deciding whether America goes to war against a rogue state as
Iraq, it needs to hear the "final recommendation" of Syria,
a regime on the State Department's official terrorist list?
Or maybe these senators are awaiting the wisdom of some of
the other nonpermanent members. Cameroon? Mauritius? Guinea?
Certainly Kennedy and Levin cannot be saying that we must not
decide whether to go to war until we have heard the
considered opinion of countries that none of their colleagues
can find on a map.
Okay. So we are not talking about these dots on the map. We
must be talking about the five permanent members. The United
states is one. Another is Britain, which support us. That
leaves three. So when you hear senators grandly demand the
support of the "international community," this is what they
mean: France, Russia and China.
As I recently asked in this space, by what logic does the
blessing of these countries bestow moral legitimacy on
American action? China's leaders are the butchers of
Tiananmen Square. France and Russia will decide the Iraq
question based on the coldest calculation of their own
national interest, meaning money and oil.
Everyone in the Senate wants a new and tough inspection
regime in Iraq: anytime, anywhere, unannounced. Yet these
three countries, whose approval the Democrats crave, are
responsible for the hopelessly diluted and useless inspection
regime that now exists.
They spent the 1990s doing everything they could to
dismantle the Gulf War mandate to disarm Saddam Hussein. The
Clinton administration helplessly acquiesced, finally
approving a new Security Council resolution in 1999 that gave
us the current toothless inspections regime. France, Russia
and China, mind you, refused to support even that resolution;
they all abstained because it did not make yet more
concessions to Saddam Hussein.
After a decade of acting as Saddam Hussein's lawyers on the
Security Council, these countries are now to be the arbiters
of America's new and deadly serious effort to ensure Iraqi
disarmament.
So insist leading Democrats. Why? It has no moral logic. It
has no strategic logic. Forty years ago, we had a Democratic
president who declared that he would not allow the United
Nations or any others to tell the United States how it would
defend itself. Would that JFK's party had an ounce of his
confidence in the wisdom and judgment of America, deciding
its own fate by its own lights, regardless of the wishes of
France.
Or Cameroon.
Again, I bring my colleague back to this question of the United
Nations. A quote appears in today's newspaper (see sidebar).
It quotes our distinguished colleague,
Senator Edward Kennedy, as saying: I am waiting for the final
recommendation of the Security Council before I am going to say how I
am going to vote.
I would like to give the Senator an opportunity to clarify.
Mr. KENNEDY. I called him and asked him for the context. We have not
received that yet.
Mr. KENNEDY. It is quite clear what I have said; that is, I think it
is a mistake for us to go it alone, unless there is the kind of threat
that I have just described -- a clear and present danger and an imminent
threat to the United States. Then we have to take action. That power is
reserved for the President. We had that discussion earlier in the
afternoon between the Senator from West Virginia and the Senator from
Virginia. That happens to be the case. But that has not been the case,
and the case has not been made.
It seems to me that we are much better off going internationally and
not saying that our first choice ought to be war, the first choice
ought to be battle, and the first choice ought to be conflict. I think
we ought to try to build a coalition of the United Nations and take
concerted action with an inspection regime that does authorize force,
that does permit unfettered inspections, that includes the reporting
back to the Security Council of the progress that has been made.
I outlined that in my speech. That is our position. That is what I
thought the President was saying when he went to the United Nations
initially. That is what I thought he was saying. That is the course of
action that we ought follow, and we ought to hear certainly from the
United Nations Security Council on that recommendation and on that
challenge.
Mr. KENNEDY. I hope he will go to the United Nations
and that he will go to the Security Council. Then, if he finds out they
will not take the steps, and that we have a clear, present, and
immediate danger to the United States, I hope he will come back and
that we can debate and pass a resolution so we can take the steps
necessary to secure this country.
But that isn't what the resolution says. We have been through that.
Basically, it doesn't deal with the Security Council of the United
Nations. It doesn't deal with that. It says it permits unilateral
action without the Security Council taking any steps at all.
We want to follow what the Senator from Virginia says. The President
has gone to the Security Council. Challenge it, get an international
coalition,
go for that and challenge with inspections. If that is not successful,
come back here to the Senate. And I bet you that Senator Byrd will be
the first name that will be on a resolution to take the action and mine
will be the second. But that is not where we are now. That isn't what
this resolution is all about. It effectively is granting the President
the authority to go to war unilaterally if he concludes there is a
continuing threat from Iraq -- not an immediate, not a clear and present
danger -- if there is a continuing threat from Iraq. I think he has
concluded that today.
If you pass this resolution, you are saying, Why even bother with the
Security Council? If I were a member of the Security Council, I would
say, Why are you even taking the time to talk to us? You have already
made up your mind. You are going to war.
That is effectively what that resolution says. That is the problem
some of us have with the construct and why we are here.
I thank the Senator. I appreciate it very much. I am sure we will
have more opportunity to talk.
Those are the words that say to me the doctrine of preemption, which
I recited, and which has been followed for many years by this country
in times of need, is one that bears careful reexamination in the light
of the technology possessed by Saddam Hussein. He has far more weapons
than were ever presented by Adolf Hitler -- far more weapons in terms of
weapons of mass destruction and the technology that exists today that
didn't exist in 1961 and that didn't exist in 1941.
Mr. KENNEDY. I, for one, am not prepared to sign up
for the change in foreign policy where we have one person making a
decision to go to war. Today, it is Iraq because we have Saddam
Hussein. Khomeini was in Iran. We were going to that country as well.
What about Qadhafi? I heard from families in my State of Massachusetts
who lost members of their family. Sixty-seven members of the Armed
Forces lost their lives in the war against Qadhafi. Why aren't we going
after Qadhafi?
What about North Korea? They may have murdered millions of their own
people. They may have nuclear weapons.
Where are we stopping on this? The idea that you had a great deal
more time -- in the Cuban missile crisis, had the weapons come from Cuba,
we had about 11 minutes. You are saying there is no more of a dangerous
time now than we had with 11 minutes?
I am not prepared to say we are going to turn over to a single
individual in our democracy the authority to go to war at any time when
a President believes there is a "continuing threat" from -- you fill in
the name of the country. You fill in the name of the country. A
"continuing threat" from where? -- fill in the name of the country --
authorizing the President to go to war.
That is not, I think, what our Founding Fathers intended.
Hopefully, the United Nations will devise a resolution and live up to
its responsibilities. But if it does not, let there be no doubt in the
minds of anyone that our Nation will act in its own interests to
protect its own people and, hopefully, will act with a coalition of
allies.
Albion Monitor
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